This may help with your understanding of "Tralala." Remember, Selby is interested in exploring "the horrors of a loveless world." He is looking at humans at their lowest, humans stripped of any capacity for higher thought, humans incapable of (or unwilling to) express deep emotions.
In my opinion, the text asks more questions than it answers which may be why it seems to have no purpose. Here are a few of the questions that came to me as I read the text. Feel free to answer them and post on the blog for extra credit. I'll give you a one time offer of ten extra credit points (instead of the usual five) if you post something about "Tralala" this weekend.
Are Tralala's actions dictated by her environment? How much agency does she have over her life?
How much free will does anybody have? Does free will exist within parameters? Do those parameters differ based on external factors (time, place, class, race, gender)?
Are certain people who are more prone to Tralala's fate? Why do some people that grow up in circumstances like Tralala "get out" while others get sucked in deeper?
Can a human become pure animal? What makes that transition happen?
How and why does a conscience become hardened over time?
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Do the Right Thing: Reading and Writing about Ethics & Morality
In this class, we will read works that pose difficult moral questions and don't always offer simple answers. We will explore individual morality, societal morality, and the relationship between them both as we read stroies, plays, and poems that challenge and complicate the reader's understanding of right and wrong.
7 comments:
I absolutely think Tralala's actions are dictated by her environment. By reading the narrative, you get an idea of the harshness of her world (lack of love, no true family around, every man for himself) and, while it may not excuse her behavior, this explains why her attitude seems so flippant and why she doesn't care about anyone but herself. She is a true product of her extreme environment.
Yes, people can rise above their life circumstances but never underestimate the skill, time, and brain power this takes. We don't start reading about Tralala until she's 15; we have no idea what happened to her before that or if she already tried to escape Brooklyn and failed. I don't think she's an innocent character but I don't think she deserved all the flack we were giving her today.
A conscience becomes hardened by life circumstances that are often beyond our control. It is often easier, in a shitty situation, to put on a tough exterior and just take what's coming your way than to try and fight it. It's easy to judge and be idealistic when one is merely a spectator and quite a different story when one is actually involved.
I have noticed that with "Tralala", "Sexy", and "Euripides" that there is a great deal of contempt and score towards the female characters. While none of the above female roles are saints, I don't think they are as guilty as make them out to be. I have been thinking about why this may be (post-feminist backlash? neo-conservatism?) and have yet to come up with any answers.
Lest everyone think Selby was a masochist who never loved anyone or anything, here is a quote I found from a 1999 interview:
"As I understand it, there are only two emotions a human being can experience, love or fear. And when you're in a state of love, you can't think of trying to get anything. You're incapable of thinking that way. You just seem to experience the perfection of creation and want to do what you can to make everyone comfortable - you just give away everything you have."
Are Tralala's actions dictated by her environment?
Tralala’s actions are a combination of many factors. She possibly absorbed the environment but to do so she had to be naturally inclined towards such behavior. On the other hand she didn’t know better. It could be indifference – just go with the flow. It could be just an easy way out. It could be she was hungry for attention and this is only way she knew how get it.
How much agency does she have over her life?
Considering one has the will power, then anything is possible. She could’ve been much more than what she’d become. She just really had to desire it.
How much free will does anybody have?
Anyone can pick and choose anything their heart desires. The outcome and the consequences, that what counts at the end.
Does free will exist within parameters?
First we really have to understand the “Free Will”. Only then we can answer this question with greater certainty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
Do those parameters differ based on external factors (time, place, class, race, gender)?
They are absolutely based on these factors. They are all valid variables. The all valid pulling forces and just like in science “For every action there is a reaction.”
Are certain people who are more prone to Tralala's fate?
Yes, there are people like that. Who are they and how to spot them? Perhaps we should consider every other question above.
Why do some people that grow up in circumstances like Tralala "get out" while others get sucked in deeper?
It all depends on the personality. Some people are stronger and some are weaker. Some want to make something out of their lives and some are content with what they have.
Can a human become pure animal?
Yes, it is possible when one lacks spiritual, ethical and general education and when one gives in totally and purely to the urges. The urges such as sex, alcohol or any other form of addiction. When one seeks an easy way out; when one lacks feelings and remorse; when one becomes like a “Greenie” from the “Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong,” then it’s a pure animal.
What makes that transition happen?
The transition possibly happens when there is a total degradation and this individual neither wants or can do anything about it. Most likely, just like in the case of Tralala – this person doesn’t even know it and has no normal mental capacity to understand the situation. The “Greenies” in my opinion have some mental issues.
How and why does a conscience become hardened over time?
Does it? I think this question is very close to the one about the “Total Truth.” How are we to act in one case or the other? Is every situation the same for everyone? Who is more right and less wrong? Why to do something for the greater good? Is this action right in a long run? It’s always there – it is easier not to listen to it. Only in this case – ignorance is NOT a bliss but if it is, then only for a very short time.
I think Tralala's actions are greatly dictated by her environment. It seems she is only surviving along the story and following her instincts. In this sense, while she seems rational, she is in fact submissing to necessity or fear of death. Also her fate is greatly influenced by the initial conditions she experienced that made Tralala be Tralala.I know for example that poverty, (or undereducation) harsh conditions of living affects the individual in his inner feelings until his bones, the way he see things, his development...
Still, I do not think Tralala hasn't free will. It seems the reason she is so profit oriented is because she doesn't have money.
It is necessary for her to be the way she is. So she does not have free will and her choice are not rational, they are dirven by necessity or fear of dying. On the contrary I think she became rational under irrationality (planning her misdemeanors...) proving her potential to get herself out of the situation she is in. I think she could have taken different directions. It might sound weird but I think she did not have a lot of free will but every action she was taking wether good or bad was a way to increase her liberty (free will).ex: she could have stolen the officer's money and maybe do more profitable things with it or she could have kept a distnat relationship with him and who knows...
In this sens since free will is a matter of degree (for me), it differs with parameters. There is a level of free will that goes with class, race, time,space and gender.
We might not be able to change certain parameters (we can argue that since the parameters are nothing but ideas), but some parameters can be changed increasing the liberty of the individual (ex: class). Also, each parameter has a degree of liberty that can be used to increase the liberty within this parameter (ex: race). The parameters have a negative or positive influence on each other, being a rich woman is not the same as being a homeless man.ex: a prisoner can definitely break out of jail with a solid plan or he can wait the end of his sentence. He starts a few liberty or free will and finishes with more liberty or free will.
I think because of free will people grow up in the same environment and turn out different
-therwise all people actions would be hundred percent predictables-
one decided to change her environment for example, the other is sucked deeper. Because she let it be or may be liked being sucked deeper. Maybe she was helpless but in this case crime was an option to come to a more stable situation. Being sucked deeper is for me is a proof of complacency in degradation. I can't tell for sure that crime is the ultimate option for the helpless. In the story, Tralala could have worked in a bar...She did not like that lifestyle. [Complacency and the possibilties decreasing (ex: with age) causes the conscience to harden]
We see degradation in Tralala as well as in "Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong". Actually, I liked Mary Anne's transformation who changed more evidently as an animal. she became a predator (an animal) as Tralala became a prey (animal). I tihnk their environment that affacted the transistion but in the final they made the choice to make it happen. Also i would like to add that we should not forget that the human is beforehand an animal, we should not behave totally as if we were, like Anne Mary or Tralala but still we shouldn't forget our natural instincts (father of our emotions) which make us so complex and so human.
This is a typical case of nature verses nurture. I do agree that her environment has played apart but funny enough there is no mention of her parents for a girl at 15, so one has to wonder.
Everyone has the power to achieve anything they want but it depends on the person and how much you want it so she had all the agency. We unfortunately dont know much about her life before but her power to do what she does could have been used to do the right thing.
We all have the same amount of free will under the laws of the land. However there are other secret factors that will affect each individual differently. Not everyone can take the same route to achieve the same outcome as circumstances such your race, class, wealth affects your chosen route. Its just the way life is a person who is born in a wealthy family will have less parameters affecting their free will than another person of a lower standard of living.
People who lack a conscience, respect for life and onself will be more prone to Tralala's fate. It would be unfair to specifically say the a poor or rich or black or white person is more prone to tralala's fate because things happen. Some people are grown a certain way but still they choose a different path. In the end its all about the nature of the person.
People choose who they want to be and at the same time the environment makes it harder but most people that "get out" are determined and realistic about what they want. I will agree that alot of person try real hard to "get out" but with no success and then give up. But the ones that do "get out" they never accept defeat no matter the circumstance. And then there are the people who want to "get out" but refuse to work at it and believe that it will just happen.
The mind is a powerful weapon I have seen perfectly sweet individuals when placed in a certain environment who become a totally different person. The transition takes place due to a particular circumstance such as in "Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong". Where her environment brought out one would probably say her trueself which might have not been seen if her environment did not change. The same might be said for Tralala probably if she was grown in a different environment she would be different.
The stresses, disappointments, lack of love can make a person withdraw from society and become selfish to a point of no return. Being constantly hurt by others, taken advantage of and ofcourse having a feeling of nothingness due to your surroundings.
Natalie
Nickeitta's Comment.....
Are Tralala's actions dictated by her environment?
In a way yes Tralala’s environment dictates her actions. It seems as though Tralala’s lifestyle was forced upon her at an early age in her life. The people she associated with had very negative lifestyles and it seems as though the lifestyle Tralala lived was common in her poverty stricken neighborhood. Thus, it is only natural that she would live such a life.
How much agency does she have over her life?
Tralala has a lot of agency over her life. She has the power to change the life she lives and to better herself. In fact she was given that opportunity by the seaman whom she spent a few days with and he left her a letter. However, she does not because she is too caught up in her current life. So that makes you wonder if there is a time limit for one to get out of their current situations. Is there a point at which you’ve gone too far that you cannot return? Or is everyone still able to get out no matter how low or far into a situation they have gone?
How much free will does anybody have? Does free will exist within parameters? Do those parameters differ based on external factors (time, place, class, race, gender)?
Everyone has as much free will they allow themselves to have given that they are not limited by external forces. External forces such as laws, financial state and societal pressures will limit the amount of free will one has. However, it is up to that individual to take advantage of the power and control they have that are not restricted. I believe that if you don’t make use of what you already have you cannot expect anyone to take you seriously and grant you those that are inaccessible.
Are there certain people who are more prone to Tralala's fate?
Yes there are certain people who are more prone to Tralala’s fate than others. For example, someone who had a tragic childhood might be more prone to Tralala’s fate than an individual who had a healthy childhood development. As stated before Tralala’s environment does dictate her actions. So someone who lived under such circumstances – poor neighborhood that’s involve in drugs, prostitution, heavy crime – will be more prone to live such a life than an individual who was brought up in a decent neighborhood.
Why do some people that grow up in circumstances like Tralala "get out" while others get sucked in deeper?
Some people that grow up in circumstances like Tralala “get out” while others get sucked in deeper because those individuals that get out have certain resources accessible to them. The individuals that are able to get out are not trapped in a box. These individuals were probably exposed to other lifestyles other than the current one they dwell in either directly [given opportunities to get out of their current state in order to see the finer side of life] or indirectly [knew others that did not lived the way they lived – role models]. Thus, knowing that this other life existed they individuals that get out were motivated to get out and change their lives.
Can a human become pure animal? What makes that transition happen?
I would like to believe that a human couldn’t become pure animal. I think that no matter how cold, cruel or heartless a human being become, there is still some form of conviction in his or her heart.
Olivia Ozelle Harris
Response to Tralala
1. Are Tralala actions dictated by her environment? Yes, Tralala cold nature mirrors the cold environment she lives and “works” in. Our environments are huge influences on the people we become. Of course there are always exceptions, but not in Tralala case. She embodied her environment by being cold, manipulative and greedy.
2. How much agency does she have over her life? Tralala does not have much control over her life. She is ruled by the power of money. She is addicted to it and will try to get it by any means necessary. She doesn’t have much control over her life as we see in the story because she is constantly putting her life at risk without considering the repercussions of her actions. Tralala does this with the intentions of possibility stealing a lot of money.
3. How much free will does anybody have? We all have a very limited amount of “free will”. We all like the idea of free will but we can’t very well all live civilized lives if we all did what ever we wanted. Are free will starts to weaken through formal and informal laws of society. Telling us what we can and cant do, and also what is socially acceptable and not acceptable. We begin to strangle our free will when we live our lives solely by trying to meet everyone else’s expectations.
4. Does free will exist within parameters? No. This is a complex matter. On the outside it seems that we do have some sought of free will within limitation. Free will in parameters cannot exist. With in parameters is not free will but a preselected number of choices approved by other social forces. For example, a mom may offer her son to eat the carrots or the peas for dinner. Its not free will of choice because what he really wants is a snicker bar.
5. Do those parameters differ based on external factors (time, place, class, race gender)? Yes. In terms of time, free will was evident before the civilized era. Once laws and structure came about, freewill was damaged severely. Place plays pivotal a role as well. The amount of control and availability of media, government (all forms including basic ones), and family have on your life determines your free will. This amount of control varies from place to place. Class and race determines free will as well. While most of society are being controlled, there are the powerful free that reap the rewards of a larger amount of free will. The richer you are the more influential you will be. The rich and the powerful don’t always abide to the same social laws we are forced to follow. Whites have more free will than minorities. Free will is all about the fight with limitations or parameters. The more you are limited (the less control you have over your life- job, school, rights) then less free will you have. Free will exists when the person doesn’t consider the rules or temperament of society when making decisions.
6. Are certain people more prone to Tralala’s fate? Yes. People who struggle and live the hard knock life are prone. When people are desperate they do anything they have to do to survive. Someone who was pampered all their lives don’t end up like Tralala.
7. Why do some people that grow up in circumstances like Tralala “get out” while others get sucked in deeper? Some people have great mentors or role models: teachers, neighbors, boss’, Ophra, etc. (personal mentors or outside role models) that inspire them to continue on and demand better for themselves. Some people “just had enough” with this life and pack up and leave without looking back. A strong family tie plays a major factor as well. Family raises the person and plays an important role in the morals and the character of the person.
8. Can a human become a pure animal? Yes. When you lose a sense of right and wrong, amoral, then you become an animal.
9. What makes that transition happen? I can’t really answer this, but I would think it happens when someone has nothing to lose. When he/she finds no pleasure in life or within.
10. How and why does a conscience become harden overtime? It gets hard living in this “me” fulfilling world. It becomes harden when your see pain and suffering endured by innocent peoples. It hardens when you try so hard to be fair and good, but end up short-handed. It hardens when you realize you have to be cold and greedy sometimes to survive or you would be eating up by the vultures, dressed up in ties and heels that pass them selves as human beings.
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